Devin has an inspiring conversation with bass virtuoso and composer Kebra Seyoun Charles. From their early exposure to African drumming and gospel music to becoming a celebrated classical musician, Charles shares their unique journey and vision for the future of classical music through their "Counter Classical" style. Charles's work embodies a fresh perspective on classical music's future, one that honors tradition while embracing innovation and inclusivity. Their approach shows that classical music's evolution doesn't require abandoning its foundations, but rather expanding its boundaries to embrace diverse influences and experiences. As they put it, "Classical music is so beautiful and so ephemeral and it can't be contained."

Devin Patrick Hughes: Keb, I’d love to start by asking about your background. Your father was an African drummer and dancer, and you grew up immersed in jazz, gospel, traditional African music. Can you talk about how you went from this vibrant musical upbringing to becoming a classical musician?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: Actually, it was my mother who was the African drummer, and she was quite the renaissance woman. As a kid, I didn’t always want to attend her rehearsals. I would have preferred to play video games or watch TV. But my mom, being an artistic person, saw value in her children being exposed to those experiences. So, she brought me to all her rehearsals. 

In a way, I absorbed it all by osmosis—the music, the environment, the kind of people who cared about making music, and the way it moved people. I came to understand music's power by watching its effect on others, even though, back then, I didn’t fully appreciate the significance.

Devin Patrick Hughes: Growing up in that environment, did you ever consider pursuing something other than music? Or was there always a deep connection to creating music?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: That’s interesting. Looking back, I think I’ve always had music playing in my head—a melody or rhythm constantly present. This started around elementary school, partly because of those rehearsals I attended with my mom. At the time, I felt like an outsider; when your parents are involved in something, you tend to think it’s “uncool.” But watching the gospel choirs and witnessing the praise breaks—moments where everyone would get up, dance, and celebrate—it gave me a front-row seat to the communal power of music. While I didn’t feel particularly connected to the spiritual aspects of gospel, I was fascinated by its ability to get people out of their seats and dancing. I witnessed firsthand the effect music could have every time it was performed.

Devin Patrick Hughes: Your bass playing is remarkable. There’s a quality to it that’s almost like a cellist, with such precision in pitch and sound. I’m curious—how do you see the balance between being a performer and a composer? Do you think one should focus more on one over the other, or is it essential to do both?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: My teacher, Randy Wolfe, always tells me, “Whatever your inclination is, it’s probably right. Just do that.” That advice has shaped how I approach my own work and how I think others should approach theirs. If you feel like you need to develop your composition skills or practice your scales, then that’s probably what you should do.

For me, I've always been intrigued by how composers create such distinct emotional responses. Listening to pieces like Prokofiev’s Fifth Symphony or Strauss’s *Rosenkavalier,* I wondered, “How did they arrive at that sound? How did they elicit that feeling?” Before I fully dove into composition, I already felt a need to understand the technical aspects that allow a composer to achieve a specific emotional impact.

Devin Patrick Hughes: I love that blend of emotion and technique you’re describing. Strauss and Mozart, for example, created music that resonates on such a deep emotional level. When you think of composers you admire, who stands out?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: Right now, I’d say Korngold. I feel that he’s often overlooked, yet he was a master of harmony and tone. He was a prodigy from Vienna who found success in Hollywood, becoming a leading film composer. But his “hyper tonality”—the rich, emotional sound he developed—wasn’t a result of film; it was his voice from the beginning. I think that’s why people sometimes dismiss him, seeing him only as a film composer. But his work, especially his Violin Concerto and Cello Concerto, shows a harmonic depth and sophistication that’s unparalleled.

Devin Patrick Hughes: For those unfamiliar, can you explain why Korngold’s place in music history is so significant?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: Korngold was a wunderkind from Vienna, often compared to Mozart. His father, a prominent music critic, introduced his work to major figures like Strauss and Mahler. He escaped Vienna in the 1940s due to the Nazi persecution and ended up in Los Angeles, where he became a pioneer in film scoring. Korngold had an intrinsic sound—what I’d call “hyper tonality”—that he applied to movies, but it was there long before Hollywood. His music was emotive and harmonically rich, and I think it’s high time we appreciate his contributions beyond film.

Devin Patrick Hughes: You've mentioned that you draw inspiration from a range of sources, including gospel and house music. How does that blend influence your classical compositions?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: Absolutely. House music, for instance, has this pulse that speaks to a basic human instinct. The “four-on-the-floor” beat—steady, repetitive downbeats—gets people on the dance floor. I try to incorporate that instinctive rhythm into my work, alongside the harmonic and formal complexity of classical music. I’m influenced by minimalist composers like Julia Wolfe, who create repeating, discernible forms that audiences can connect with. It’s about merging rhythmic clarity with the intricacy of classical form.

Devin Patrick Hughes: You recently worked on a ballet project with the Peter London Global Dance Company. Can you tell us about it?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: That project is called *Shango*, named after an ancient Yoruba god known for partying and revelry. I used bass, drums, and marimba, though not traditional African instruments, as a way of bridging the cultural gap. My goal was to stay true to the essence of African rhythm—staying in one key, repeating patterns, and creating music that invites people to dance. There’s a bit of Korngold and Debussy in there, but mostly it’s about simplicity and accessibility, reaching people through rhythm and melody.

Devin Patrick Hughes: Another project you’ve been working on is Enby, which explores identity and belonging. What inspired you to create this work?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: Enby was born out of my own experiences as a Black, non-binary musician in the classical world. It’s an autobiographical piece that explores what it’s like to navigate spaces where you often feel like an outsider. Some of the most awkward moments I’ve had have been sitting in prestigious concert halls, feeling out of place. It’s about reconciling my passion for classical music with an industry that hasn’t always felt welcoming.

The piece is presented in vignettes, each exploring a different aspect of my experience. The first vignette, for example, deals with performance anxiety and the pressure to deliver on stage. I recently received grants from the Sphinx Organization and the New York Women’s Foundation, and I’m excited to continue developing this work, sharing stories that aren’t often in the spotlight.

Devin Patrick Hughes: You won the Sphinx Competition in 2022 after multiple attempts. How did that experience shape you?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: Winning the Sphinx Competition was both surprising and affirming. I had tried three times before, and each time I got closer. But in 2022, after working hard and focusing on making a connection with the audience, I won. It was during the pandemic, so I wanted my performance to convey, “I’m here with you. I’m going through this, too.” That sense of relatability is what I aimed to bring to my performance.

Devin Patrick Hughes: You have something you call the “Counter Classical Style.” What does that mean?

Kebra Seyoun Charles: “Counter Classical” combines both counterpoint and countercultural elements. I want to bring the precision and complexity of classical music—its counterpoint, its intricate form—and merge it with popular influences. It’s about taking what’s beautiful in classical music and making it accessible, infusing it with the relatable elements of pop and other genres. Imagine if Mozart and Kendrick Lamar collaborated. That’s the spirit of what I’m trying to achieve.

Devin Patrick Hughes: I love that idea. Maybe we need a new term to replace “classical music” altogether, one that reflects the diversity of music that symphonies play today. Classical, pop, jazz, film scores—it’s all part of the repertoire now.

Kebra Seyoun Charles: Definitely. Classical music has such a rich legacy, but we also need to evolve. It’s not about leaving tradition behind but about reimagining it in ways that resonate with contemporary audiences. That’s the vision behind my music and my work in the industry.